Master Of Orion 2

Nous sommes un groupe de joueur invétéré de MOO2(en réseau). Lassé que les races prises soit toutes les mêmes (à 2 ou 3 variante prés) à savoir des unifications-souterraines-productions, nous avons décidé de modifier le fichier racestuf.lbx (qui contient la valeur en pics des différents avantages), afin que d´autres options de jeu soient viable pour la victoire.
J´aurais aimé l´avis des personnes désireuses de l´exprimer sur le "combien-devrai-couter-tel-ou-tel-avantage/inconvénient"
En vous remerciant d´avance de vos précieuses remarques... Yann

xylan comment fait tu pour
--------------------------------------------TOTAL: je triche et j´utilise un éditeur pour:

• mettre le malus de recherche de tout le monde à -10

ou je me trouve se editeur?

Moi ma combi c´est lithovore+créative (qui me permet de nicquer l´ordi en impossible, 8 joueurs), mais je pensais pas qu´il en y avait d´autres viables. c´est quoi les votres?

Forcément avec les humains ca marche pas mais contre l´ordi la race humaine est cool.
Tu fais des alliances, tu te ruines au début mais c´est pas grave. Tu fais une bonne ligne de défense et tu attends que les associaux soient en guerre contre toi pour les attaquer quand ils ont laser et toi plasma et un +80 en attaque /sol et eux un +15, on rigole sec ! !

Ma combi c´est créative + subterranean + démocratie. Lithovore c´est bien, mais seulement au début : aprés, quand on peut faire soil enrichment + weather controller + gaia transformation, on peut faire survivre 42 citoyens avec 3 fermiers.

Belle stratégie blueworld, tu va avoir l´arme la + puissante du jeu vite mais comme t´as pas de technologie pour améliorer ta production ça va être dur. Sinon, comment modifier le jeu pour le rendre plus dur ?

euh Yann tu pourrai expliquer comment on change la valeur des pics plz? Il faut quel programme?

Pour l´équilibre des pics je sais pas trop, mais si vraiment tout le monde choisit Unification+Production, alors ptêt que diminuer le coût de Créatif et Démocratie permettrait d´avoir une vraie alternative : le joueur scientifique. Parce que bon une horde de klakons avec des lasers contre une station spatiale ou quelques vaisseaux remplis de Heavy Mass Drivers ( voir mieux...) ça peut faire une bataille sympa en début de jeu pas vrai ? Des hordes surmotivées et souséquipées contre quelques vaisseaux plus avancés... on se refait Stalingrad

Moi je suis un joueur type scientifique.
des fois j´écrase 1 horde de klackons avec 2 vaisseaux sans même qu´ils ripostent(avec le truc pour jouer 2 tours et le truc pour rendre complétement invisible)

Of course you can win easily with crea or tech races against the ai.

Strongest Crea Races are: Uni Sub Crea and Uni Aqua Crea

And Demo Lith has amazing fast very nice techs....

These races are almost unstoppable after turn 130...

There is only one problem in online-MP-games....if a prod race has an average start it will kill these races at turn 100-120...

So, we played some modded games recently...the aim was to balance the game in this mod:

http://www.moo2.de.vu/Readme_b4.txt

This mod is still a betaversion....but techraces have already a fair chance....

Un peu plus dure là la traduction.
Les abréviations gênent.

Bon :
Bien sûr que vous pouvez gagner facilement avec des races créatives ou technologiques contre l´ordi !
La suite plus tard, là pas le temps.

Allez je vais te donner un coup de main ; )

Bien sûr vous pouvez gagner facilement contre l´IA avec des races technologiques ou créatives.

Les races créatives les plus fortes sont: Unification-Souterraine-Créative ou Unification-Aquatique-Créative.

Et Démocratie-Lithovore est incroyablement rapide pour gagner des chouettes technologies.

Ces races sont la plupart du temps invincibles après le 130ème tour.

Il y a seulement un problème avec les parties online: si une race productive a un bon départ elle éliminera ces races aux tours 100-120.

Donc nous avons joué récemment à des parties modifiés, le but étant d´équilibrer le jeu avec ce mod:

http://www.moo2.de.vu/Readme_b4.txt

Ce mod est toujours en betaversion... mais les races technologiques ont désormais des chances plus équilibrées...

Thank you.

Merci.
( en fait, j´ai oublié ce forum un moment)

@OldEuropean:
a) Moral Techs:
Holo Sim 400 ( 900)
Virtual Reality Network 400-Sociology ( 4500-Computers) ! !!
Psionics 650 ( 2750)
Pleasure Dome 1500 ( 6000) ! !!

I think this is to counter unification, ok, it is too powerful, but i think you rather should reduce the unification bonuses.

-20 Ship Attack -5 ( -2) *
-1 Research -5 ( -3) *
On ALL my last games ( always against AI), i only made missle ships, because it´s just one sector, on the countrary of beams which requires techs from many domains.
-Are missile attacks affected by this -20 ?
-are missiles useless in MP ?

-Feudal -10 ( -4) **
Aren´t feudal too powerful with good research computers instead of scientists ? They got *improved* ship prod, especially with adv. gvt.
Do you start all MP games in pre-warp ?

Ok, the only MP games i made were against... my elder brother. But i´m really skeptikal about some of your mods.

PS: I´m french

Hi Evilpotatoe
Thanks for your response. Let me try to explain my decisions and to answer your questions:

" I think this is to counter unification, ok, it is too powerful, but i think you rather should reduce the unification bonuses."

Reducing uni bonus means an more expensive uni pick. ( I dont know other ways to reduce their bonus....at moment.)

And i prefer to change the " unused" part of the game...
Some strong uni races loses their large hw advantage. Most other things are unchanged with respect to uni...
. ..and u should be able to play the dominant 1.31 strategy in that mod.

Please dont underestimate the uni-advantage in the begin. 50% on prod and food is tuff....
The morale tech changes helps a morale race for sure....
these races have that techs around turn 80....and gives them strength to compete.....
but morale races are still very weak around turn 90.....if uni attacks them....
last games have shown that uni still dominates up to turn 110.

" -Are missile attacks affected by this -20 ? "

Yes, they are. But that is not the reason for the change. The reason is ship initiative. With -20 SA all ur ships move at the end of the turn in battle.(We always play with ship initiative...an option in the 1.31 patch.) Even in a pure missile battle the ship initiative is very important. Small ships attack in the first turn...move forward, shoot and retreat....some small empty ff flies to the corner. The ship initiative means room advantage and decides these kind of battles.

" -are missiles useless in MP ? "

Not useless. But very difficult to win just with missiles. See the above-mentioned szenario. With a beam ship u can shoot down missiles that attacks the ff.
So your missiles will hit if the opponent doesnt retreat with all his ships. And u have still a ff on the map if beam ships have to retreat. ( depends on ur pd-strength)

" Aren´t feudal too powerful with good research computers instead of scientists ? "

If u really wanna research with feudal:
Imho in pre and average it wont work in the long run. ( uni also research mainly with buildings....it works for these races because
it builds col bases and buildings a lot of faster.)

( U can just try a feudal blitz race...but difficult to win with these races.)
In adv it might work a little better now....not seriously tested yet.

" They got *improved* ship prod, especially with adv. gvt."

I guess that feudal will never come so far.

" Do you start all MP games in pre-warp ? "

Mainly average.....but also pre......very rarely adv.....

" Ok, the only MP games i made were against... my elder brother. But i´m really skeptikal about some of your mods."

Im also sceptical with some decisions...(i discuss a lot with different kali players) and there will be some changes in further versions.
But the points u mentioned here....are mainly accepted by the other players on kali.
Some would prefer uni 10 picks and morale techs slightly more expensive as in DD.
Others say only with uni=10 there will be balance....(morale techs unchanged)
And others say uni is too weak now.

There is simply no clear conclusion at moment...even after more than 100 MP-Games with DD.

" PS: I´m french"

There were 3 or 4 french recently. I can probably give u one of their mails if u wanna play against them.
Interested?

First: Thanks ! for your complete responses, your work to upgrade the game...
hmm, some help about that plz:
ff ? pd-strength ? imho ? DD ?

" And i prefer to change the " unused" part of the game..."
Just a question about this " unused part": Aren´t most of the techs unused
Lots of techs like anti missiles rockets, " on board lab", bio-weapons, stealth domains tech, food replicator ...

Also, note that i only tried a few times MP games, and with only 1 other human player, so, i can´t seriously evaluate your balance changes.

Did alredy somebody try to contact microprose and ask if they could release their source code in public domain ? I guess both responses are NO, but . ..

Wen i say i´m french, it´s because it´s just to ustify my potential bad english.
I could play with eng players as with french.
But i don´t think i will play on the net, maybe my brother but... nothing sure.
How long are averages games ? ( turns & time)

Do you like moo1 ? I tested it a few time before thinking that, but in single player, i think he is as good as moo2, in different ways. ( e.g. the fighters gestion was really better in moo1)
If you tried moo1, don´t you miss the tech system with several researchs at a time, " random creativity" for every race, lots of shields/computers/engine/cells/... tech levels

Additionals questions: Did alredy anybody find an interrest in making androïds ?
or in moo3 ?

Hi Evil!

ff ? frigate
pd-strength ? pointdefense-strength ( fe. when u have fusion env con pd....nukes are almost useless.)
imho ? in my humble opinion
DD ? DemoDictMod

" Just a question about this " unused part": Aren´t most of the techs unused
Lots of techs like anti missiles rockets, " on board lab", bio-weapons, stealth domains tech, food replicator . .."

Yes. You are right that many techs are unused. Only Crea uses anti missile rockets......bio weapons, scutlab and food replicator seem to be useless.
( I dont understand what u mean with " stealth domains tech".)

Actually I think about a further mod with many changes. Where ANY techfield is a tuff choice. But so far only brainstorming....

" Did alredy somebody try to contact microprose and ask if they could release their source code in public domain ? I guess both responses are NO, but . . ."

As far as i know all rights were bought by atari.

" Wen i say i´m french, it´s because it´s just to ustify my potential bad english."

Im German and my english sucks, too.

" I could play with eng players as with french. But i don´t think i will play on the net, maybe my brother but... nothing sure."

We have many veterans there...but also many new players where you have a fair chance to beat them. No worries.

" How long are averages games ? ( turns & time)"

This depends largely on galaxy type and races. Between 30 minutes and 30 hours anything is possible.

normally games last 90-130 turns. rarely longer than 200 turns.
A 1v1 normally lasts 4 hours in large galaxy with wormholes. Without wormholes....games can be pretty long.

" Do you like moo1 ? I tested it a few time before thinking that, but in single player, i think he is as good as moo2, in different ways. ( e.g. the fighters gestion was really better in moo1)"

I like moo1. But i havent played it recently...just reinstalled it a few days ago. but i forgot almost anything about it.
I dont like to rape ai......but for singleplayer moo1 is still nice. ( actually, moo2 is boring for me in singleplayer---but MP-moo2 is another dimension of that game)

" If you tried moo1, don´t you miss the tech system with several researchs at a time,"

That is not so important imho.

" ..." random creativity" for every race, lots of shields/computers/engine/cells/... tech levels"

Hmmm.....should be possible to play that way.....play uncreative....and dont look in the details of the techtable.....(should be possible to make a moo1-mod
where u make this techtable-button useless.)
Mebbe more fun for singleplayer. But in multiplayer the lucky player would win the games.....(i would play such games....but i wouldnt prefer them.)

" Did alredy anybody find an interrest in making androïds ? "

hmmm. android workers are quite powerful. typical strategy for a tech race to research them early on.